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Z.G.L.E
From: "Olivia Robinson"
To:
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:41 am
Subject: Common Chinese Errors
I have been teaching in Qingdao now since September and since Ifinished teaching the semester yesterday (not over yet though: papersto mark next week!) I have started to evaluate what I have achieved andwhat I have yet to accomplish.
I keep a book (and am now putting them on the computer) in which Iwrite oral and written English mistakes which are common to studentsacross my classes. I teach 1st and 2nd year university studentsconversation, writing and video classes and at first took on the roleof an observer, by listening to and reading mistakes. I am now keen touse this data more pro-actively and am currently gathering more infofrom outside teaching classes (IELTS & LCCIEB).
My suggestion is this. If everyone were to write down 5 commonerrors they find in their students' speech or writing, we could allshare them and use the information for the benefit of our students nextsemester. A similar 'brainstorm' was proposed some time ago on thesubject of 'successful classes' and I thought perhaps this might be ofuse to the list too.
These are my contributions but maybe others could include pronunciation errors, grammatical structure errors etc...
1. 'Definitely, I'll call you tomorrow' instead of 'I'll definitely call you tomorrow'
2. 'It's really a beautiful city' instead of 'It's a really beautiful city'
3. 'He should make efforts' instead of 'He should make an effort'
4. 'Because he felt ill, so he went to the doctor' instead of 'Because he felt ill, he went to the doctor'
5. 'How to say...' instead of another gap filler, eg. 'How can I put it/What's the word' etc...
I don't want to spark a debate on the validity of people's ideas of'correct' or 'incorrect' phrases, but I think most native speakerswould agree that while certain 'Chinglish' phrases would becomprehensible to most native speakers, a lot of them could be betterexpressed: This is my aim. I hope this might be useful for you all too.
Olivia Robinson
Qingdao University
Qingdao, Shandong Province
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From: "Ria Smit"
To:
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:38 pm
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
Please reply to 'fromhome41@h...'. Olivia wrote:
: 5. 'How to say...' instead of another gap filler, eg. 'How can I put
: it/What's the word' etc...
Olivia,
The last one of your points is Chinese. This is not English but direct Chinese translation.
I have found a way to correct it like this. "There is no Englishsentence which begins with 'How to ....'. Book titles, etc. may, but inspoken English there isn't one." You need to let the student know that.Replace with, Can you tell me how to say .... or How do I say .... .
After that answer the question that is being asked.
How do I say that? ---- With your mouth!
How do you think about it? ---- With my brain! etc.
This wakes the students up to the fact that they have asked thewrong question and it is the best way to get them to correct it. I donot give the correct answer until I get the correct question. It reallyworks.
Here's some points off the top of my head, after seven years in China.
1. I went to the park to PLAY with my friends.
2. I was absent because I sent my friend to the hospital, instead of,...took my friend to the hospital.
3. We have done it last lesson. ---- We did it last lesson, or, We have done it.
4. I will go a week later. ---- I will go in a week.
5. Have you ever been to Beijing before. ---- Have you ever been to Beijing.
Each one of these points is actually a clear usage of Chinesegrammar. Incorrect word usage because it is a very common word inChinese adding the extra word because in speaking Chinese it isimportant to remember to add the words that we are always telling ourstudents not to say in English. It takes practice, practice and morepractice.
Ria.
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From: "lewis"
To:
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:22 am
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
There is an excellent book called "Common Spoken Errors of theChinese" by Joseph and Linda Boyle pub Longman 1993, 183 pages,paperback. Example of Contents: In a Restaurant, Telephone Manners, JobInterviews, Banking, Good
Health etc..
Lewis Beijing
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From: english expert
To:
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:30 pm
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
Dear Olivia,
While I was working at the Foreign Language University here inGuangdong, I did the same thing and eventually filtered the most commonerror into one book. The book which is entitled "88 Ways to InstantlyImprove Your English" has been selling well in Hong Kong and nowLongman and myself are working together with Beijing Commercial Press,preparing for a big Mainland Launch in April.
Basically I took the most common 88 mistakes that I heard on a dailybasis and organized them with plenty of examples and practice questionsand it has proved to be very successful. I am now very interested tohear that you are undertaking a second project. All I can say is thatgreat minds think alike. ;-) Perhaps we could get together and pool ourideas to collaborate on a new publication. I am sure that Longman wouldbe interested in an 88 part two. I f you are interested let me know andI can send you more details about the current book.
Chris
GZ
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From: "fshdt"
To:
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:19 am
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
In teflchina@y..., "Olivia Robinson"
> 4. 'Because he felt ill, so he went to the doctor' instead of 'Because
> he felt ill, he went to the doctor'
Because ... so and Although .... but are common errors caused by an overemphasis on translation.
> 5. 'How to say...' instead of another gap filler, eg. 'How can I put
> it/What's the word' etc...
How to say? and How to spell? have both become entrenched. Studentsoften know it's not standard but it's hard to change. I do much thesame as Ria.
Some more:
Heavy overuse of connectives - therefore, moreover, furthermore,nevertheless etc. These are used some 80 times as frequently as nativespeakers writing academic English essays. I'm teaching students to makemore use of referential pronouns, synonyms and other devices forcohesion and also to use the topic and content for cohesion rather thanthrowing connectives in at the beginning of sentences and paragraphs. Ishould say that they use the connectives (apart from "on the otherhand") with a correct meaning, it's just that the overuse of thesemarked forms makes their work harder to read.
Misuse of referential pronoun "It" in:
Some travellers catch diseases. It is because they do not take precautions.
I teach that in these sort of cases, Statement followed by explicitreason/explanation, it's a good rule of thumb that initial "It" refersforward, initial "This" refers back.
False passives with certain verbs:
It was happened yesterday. He was arrived yesterday.
Again an error caused by over reliance on translation. These are allcommon errors with Cantonese speakers, by the way. I don't know howrelevant they are for Chinese with Putonghua as their first language.
Like Ria I notice an extension of the verb "play" to cover an areamuch wider than its common use in English. This also happens with theuse of school to cover tertiary education, but I think that US Englishaccepts this more than British so I don't worry too much except whenI'm trying to get a more adult approach to education.
Another:
"This is base on ...."
I think the passive is hard for Chinese students because they onlyknow the form, not the use so it's hard to recognise and fit it in.
Dick
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From: "dk"
To:
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:46 am
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
Good idea Olivia. Here's my contribution:
1) "How about..." -We use this as a follow-up question but Chineseoften start a question like this. For example, our conversation may golike:
A: "What ice-cream do you like?"
B: "I love chocolate ice-cream!"
A: "How about strawberry?"
B: "I love strawberry ice-cream, too!"
But my students often say, "How about what ice-cream do you like?"
2) "the coin has two sides" idiom is beaten to death. When I wasdoing IELTS examinations we'd see this one constantly. There must be atext book out there somewhere teaching all the students that this is agreat one.
3) "knowledge" - "We get a lot of knowledge in the university." Manystudents don't know how to use "learn" as in: "I learned a lot inuniversity."
4) "My city is a beautiful city." OK, well this is not a grammarproblem. It's more of a cultural difference. All of my students want tosay this about their cities but I seldom hear it said among Westerners.(I sure could never say my city, Detroit, is a beautiful city.) Iusually explain to my students how Westerners would and would notdescribe their cities. This is related to the following,
5) Another cultural point- Me: "I really like China!" Student:"Thank you!" Well, we're not trying to change their culture but they doneed to know how Westerners think about these things to help theircommunications be more effective. If people visit and like the USA Ifeel I had very little to do with their positive experience and cantake little personal credit for it.
6) Cantonese have problems pronouncing "th".
Prepositions and articles are always tough to learn. But tocomplicate things some are different between various Englishes. Forexample, if my student says, "I go to hospital everyday." My knee jerkreaction is to tell him "THE hospital". But our dear British colleaguesare going to tell us that what our student said is perfectlyacceptable. So I think it is a good idea to make this a 'project' thatall of us on the list can colaborate on.
Regards,
Dave Kees
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From: "Pete Marchetto"
To:
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:04 am
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
More than five. My apologies for some of the more obvious ones...particularly
the first, but someone has to mention it:
i), He/she, his/her confusions.
ii), Excessive use of the word 'very'. (Playing the game 'Just a Minute' with
the students is a very, very good way of illustrating this veryirritating problem; by the end of the game you will find the studentsbegin to get very, very irritated with themselves for it as well).
iii), Excessive use of 'superlative' words such as 'delicious' and 'beautiful'.
iv), Cultural considerations in the use of such words as 'Motherland' and
'propaganda'.
v), The tendency to use too many adjectives to add colour to writtenwork rather than varying verb and noun usage which tends to be moreeffective in English composition.
vi), In contrast to v), the desire with a burgeoning vocabulary toactually DO something with it and thus to overuse literary synonyms inspoken English.
vii), Closure of any and every speech or statement with the words 'That's all'.
viii), The premature use of idioms, ie., the tendency to do so beforethey slip trippingly from the tongue and instead to deliver them as ifin expectation of a round of applause.
ix), Unnecessary objects - 'The children were playing A GAME'; 'John is reading A BOOK'; 'She was singing A SONG'.
x), The bizarre belief held by some students that American English is worthy of attention.
Pete Marchetto
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From: "Janet Elfring"
To:
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:57 pm
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
I appreciate this discussion of common errors and will use it in class.I particularly appreciate the "How to.." Examples. This mistake is socommon I have not been correcting it. Below are some I have worked onto little avail. Most errors seem to be translation from Chinese.
"When to." Similar to "How to." When to use this word? or "How to do" in place of "what to do". "I didn't know how to do."
"I very like." "He very regret". "He was very regret." I tell themto leave out "very" altogether much of the time but if it's importantuse "I really like." Or "I liked Titanic very much." I also point outthat regret should have an object, "I really regret skipping class lastweek."
Misuse of "ever". Mao Zedong ever said... I ever went there. I tellthem "Never, ever, use "ever" in answers, only questions. Did you evereat dog meat? No I never ate dog meat. Yes, I often eat dog meat. Yes,I ate dog meat once. Not: Yes, I ever eat dog meat. Sometimes I tellthem they could say, I haven't ever eaten dog meat. But I adviceagainst that form. I point out that "Mao Zedong ever said." isambiguous. I don't know if Mao said it once or frequently.
Leaving out the verb "to be". I hungry. When I tired. It more important. Etc. etc. etc.
Misuse of "most" and "more" "Most happiest." "Most prettiest." "Morepretty" instead of "prettier." However they also form unpronounceablewords with "er" "disgusteder" "regularer" rather than "more regular".
"Boring" for "bored" or "exciting" for "excited". "I was boring." "Ifeel boring." I tell them that means they make other people feel boredwhich they understand when I explain it, but the usage doesn't change.
Using "likes to" as a comparison. "Her singing likes to a bird."
"Healthy" as a noun for "health". "Protect your healthy."
Knowledges, informations, etc.
Randomly using he or she, him or her, his or hers with no realconnection to the gender of the person involved, often switchinggenders in the same sentence when speaking of one person and using theincorrect form. "She read him book." Even the English teachers do thisregularly although they seem to catch themselves and correct thesentence after saying it incorrectly
Janet Elfring in Beijing
jianailin@y...
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From: "bruce clark"
To:
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:21 pm
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
Personally, I'd like to get my hands on the person who first suggested the use of "and so on" to my students!
I do think that we need to differentiate between common Chineseerrors and common Chinese usage. Just as we accept (perhapsunwillingly, Dave?) "go to hospital" and "go to the hospital" asEnglish or N. American usage, so we have come to accept AustralianEnglish (Strine), Indian English, Irish English and so on (Aaargh!).With a population as large as China's, I think it inevitable that someChinese usage will eventually creep into the World English. I don'tthink that English will, any longer, belong to native English speakers.(I remember the horror with which Australian teachers greeted thearrival of "yeah" and "okay", etc.)
Definitely, the use of false verbs and other examples of incorrectEnglish should be pointed out, and the correct usage taught. I supportDick wholeheartedly in this. And clumsy, awkward and repetitive phrasesdiscouraged. (That, for example, is incorrect English, yet we allunderstand my meaning and would not find the sentence constructionobjectionable.) Similarly, "How to spell?" is easily understood and isnot something to which I would object. Think, Ria, of the following: "Iwant to make something." "What's the problem?" "How to do it?" AnEnglish sentence that does begin with "How to .." Perhaps this may be aChinese contribution to the evolution of the English language. As withtheir delightful expansion of meaning for the word "play". Certainly noworse than "Hanging out"! With enormous Chinese cultural pressure, theEnglish language as we know it is bound to be somewhat distorted, as ithas been already over the years by other cultures. (Think of theYiddish influence.) Personally, I enjoy this linguistic melange ... itmakes the language, I feel, more flexible and exciting. And it alsoameliorates the Americanisation of other cultures. Welcome to Chinglish!
Gotta go ... class to teach!
Bruce.
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From: "fshdt"
To:
Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:42 am
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
> Prepositions and articles are always tough to learn. But to
> complicate things some are different between various Englishes.
> For example, if my student says, "I go to hospital everyday." My
> knee jerk reaction is to tell him "THE hospital". But our dear
> British colleagues are going to tell us that what our student
> said is perfectly acceptable. So I think it is a good idea to
> make this a 'project' that all of us on the list can colaborate
> on.
> Regards,
> Dave Kees
British English only omits the article for hospital when the person going in is going for treatment.
She went into hospital and she had it all taken away.
It tends to be left in when you're going to visit, for occupationalpurposes or just to collect medicine. I think going to the hospitalevery day implies one of those reasons so in this case we brits willleave the article in. How does US English stand on 'going tochurch/school'?
or about going home?
dick
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From: "Tony Gilbert"
To:
Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:45 pm
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
The issue of misuse of "how about..." seems to have been overlooked in this discussion, yet it is probably one of the most widespread misuses of English (ESL) I have encountered. It seems to be mainly the Chinese who do this, although I have recently encountered it with Koreans as well. Does anyone know why they think this use of "how about" is correct (see below)?
Tony Gilbert
-----Original Message-----From: dk [mailto:davkees@y...]
1) "How about..." -We use this as a follow-up question but Chineseoften start a question like this. For example, our conversation may golike:
A: "What ice-cream do you like?"
B: "I love chocolate ice-cream!"
A: "How about strawberry?"
B: "I love strawberry ice-cream, too!"
But my students often say, "How about what ice-cream do you like?"
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From: english expert
To:
Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:43 pm
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
>Dear Chris,
> Where can I get this book["88 Ways to Instantly Improve Your English"]?
Dear Marilyn,
Only in HK until April [2002] when it is launched here on the mainland.Even so I would be happy to send you an English version in word formatif you contact me off list. In fact I'll be happy to send anybody onthe list a copy but please keep it to yourselves as book piracy is abig problem here and i do not want to shoot myself in the foot evenbefore the book is released. And of course, if you can help me promotethe Chinese version to your students, that would be a big help too. ;-)
Chris
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From: "fshdt"
To:
Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:47 pm
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
In teflchina@y..., "Tony Gilbert"
>The issue of misuse of "how about..." seems to have been overlooked
>in this discussion, yet it is probably one of the most widespread misuses of
>English (ESL) I have encountered.
"How about..." seems to be used as a general question and I neverknow what answer is expected. Another similar type of question is theone you get when you ask students to make a questionnaire:
Questionnnaire: "What do you think about Macau?"
Respondent: "How on earth can I answer this in one line? What in **** were you trying to find out?
My guess is that in Chinese these questions are common but are usedas part of a restricted code where participants know what areas areunder consideration and what answers are expected.
This restricted code problem usually surfaces the other way round.Chinese learners can't use a restricted code in the appropriatesituation because they don't have the shared background and assumptionsso things have to be spelled out. It can make their conversationalEnglish stilted and pedantic. This ties in with what Felicity andJennifer have been saying about language learning and identity.
Dick
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From: "Ria Smit"
To:
Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:00 am
Subject: Re: Common Chinese Errors
Tony wrote:
: The issue of misuse of "how about..." seems to have been overlooked in this
: discussion, yet it is probably one of the most widespread misuses of
: English (ESL) I have encountered. It seems to be mainly the Chinese who do : this,
Tony, it is a direct translation of Chinese which uses the same wordfor "What about" and "how about". Maybe in their lessons they learn"how about
first and thus it sticks. I am not sure.
Ria.
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From: "Wayne"
To:
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:30:21 -0500
Subject: Overcoming Chinese-English Colloquial Habits in Writing
A paper, entitled "Overcoming Chinese-English Colloquial Habits inWriting" (written by Ted Knoy of National Tsing Hua University, Taiwan)may be of interest to some list members. Please consult it at thefollowing URL:
http://www.cc.nctu.edu.tw/~tedknoy/html/Jp-news2.htm
Wayne Berry
Toronto, Canada
